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Yep. But why does he think that? Is it because he is ignorant of the different whole life variations or is he simply avoiding a topic that is not in his interest to pursue for financial reasons? Either way, it is insincere at best and even harmful to those who would benefit from the knowledge of this type of whole life.

@InsuranceandEstates my guess is it simply doesn't fit in his business model. I'm sure he gets referrals for all the term insurance he advocates. I guess, in his defense, most whole life policies aren't set up properly to maximize cash value, which makes them very expensive. I wish I had learned about the Infinite Banking concept back in 2013 when I got married. We had the means to really benefit from it back then. I have 4 policies now set up for maximum cash value, but it's 10 years later. But, at that time, I was a big follower of Dave Ramsey, so I bought term and "invested the rest."

Banks practice it with your money every day so you’re their perfect client.

Glad you think so! Thank you for your kind comment.

I hear you. And if you examine Barry's example: you buy $94k of coverage that grows to $3M death benefit. If you take a $1M loan and pass away, yes the loan is deducted, but your family still gets $2M - that's over 21x your original coverage! The policy's growth is what makes this possible.

We'd love to get Barry on Dave's show, but that's no easy feat! If you know someone who can make that happen, let us know. That said, based on how Dave handles whole life questions in this and other videos, he'd likely try to steer the conversation to maintain control rather than engage in an honest dialogue about modern policy structures and actual performance data.

@@InsuranceandEstates I wish I did know somebody but on another note, I've had a policy from Barry for about 5 years now!

That’s great. We love hearing from happy clients. We are always open to feedback, questions, or what have you, so don’t hesitate to reach out.

You seem to be applying different standards here. While the agent's 60-year example might be longer than typical, he at least provides detailed illustrations and explains exactly how he reaches the 4.92% return figure. Meanwhile, Dave's claim of 1.2% returns is made without any supporting evidence or context. More importantly, real-world examples of properly structured whole life policies (like those with 80% of premium going to PUAs) are achieving 5%+ internal rates of return in the early years. The relevant question isn't whether someone will keep a policy for 60 years, but whether Dave's blanket criticism of whole life returns accurately reflects the performance of modern, well-structured policies. The evidence suggests it doesn't.

Yep, a lot of content. :)

Fair question, the state law could influence how long a dynasty trust could last due to what is actually called a Rule Against Perpetuities, some states that is 360 years. Others are more strict, so great question and one that a person should determine for their home state if they desire a long term dynasty trust.

Dave actually has financial conflicts here. His company gets paid by term insurance agents (Zander) and investment advisors (SmartVestor Pros) who promote his 'buy term and invest the difference' approach. That's probably why he keeps making these incorrect claims about whole life insurance even after being shown evidence that modern policies don't work the way he describes.

@InsuranceandEstates yep

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Thanks for sharing your actual experience with this. It's great to see someone confirm what Barry showed in those illustrations is happening in real life. And wow, that's a fascinating point about the dividends coming partly from all those expired term policies. Most folks don't know about that aspect of how mutual insurance companies work. Really valuable to hear from someone who's been using one of these policies successfully for over 10 years. All the best!

Thanks for sharing your experience! It's telling that you mention financial planners and Primerica reps often sound just like Dave Ramsey. They're all working from the same playbook because that's what they're trained to sell. But you've found, like many others, that properly structured whole life can be a solid part of your financial strategy. Love that you mentioned the safety aspect too, that guaranteed growth is a big deal in today's volatile market. All the best!

Love it. Thank you

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The video focused on policy design and funding flexibility, but market correlation is an important aspect of IULs. With IULs, your returns are typically linked to market indices (like the S&P 500) but with both a floor (often 0%) and a cap on returns. A floor and cap means you're protected from market losses but also won't capture the full upside of strong market performance. The participation rates and caps can vary by insurer and product. Pros of IUL Market Correlation: -Downside protection through the 0% floor means you don't lose money in market crashes -Participation in market upside can provide better growth potential than fixed-rate products -The floor makes IULs particularly valuable during high-volatility periods Cons of IUL Market Correlation: -Caps limit your participation in strong bull markets (typically around 8-12% max annual return) -Participation rates mean you only get a portion of the index returns

Do your premiums increase during the gains? If so and assuming you don’t increase the premiums are they then taken from your cash value causing the policy to implode

IULs are not one-size-fits-all products - policy design really matters here. Front-loading your premiums (putting more money in early) is a key strategy for building strong cash value that can help keep your policy in force as costs increase with age. Think of it as creating a robust foundation early on. This approach provides more flexibility and stability compared to minimal funding, which can leave your policy vulnerable to performance fluctuations and rising costs over time. A knowledgeable agent will design the policy to align with your goals while building in safeguards against future issues. Good agents know they are creating a long-term financial strategy that needs to work decades into the future. The difference between proper and poor policy design can literally mean the difference between a policy that lasts and one that fails.

@CplStevenDiaz I can see your new question in my studio app but for some reason YT does not have it show up in the comments. Anyway, premiums don't increase during the gains if you have a policy designed with sensible targets. An IUL's success or failure isn't so much about market gains as it is about proper policy design from the start. No reputable agent designs a policy to implode. In fact, front-loading premiums (putting more money in early) helps build strong cash value that can sustain the policy as costs naturally increase with age. And this is why working with an experienced agent who can offer lifetime advice and coaching is so valuable.

Yes - when the insured person dies, the beneficiaries typically receive BOTH the death benefit AND any accumulated dividends in the policy. There are generally three scenarios: 1. If dividends were taken as cash during the policy lifetime - beneficiaries get just the death benefit 2. If dividends were used to buy paid-up additions - beneficiaries get the original death benefit PLUS the additional insurance purchased by dividends 3. If dividends were left to accumulate - beneficiaries get the death benefit PLUS the accumulated dividend value The exact details can vary by insurance company and policy, but that's the general structure.

F&G (Fidelity & Guaranty Life) is a legitimate insurance provider that offers Fixed Indexed Universal Life products with features like exam-free underwriting for qualified applicants and virtual applications. While they focus on providing basic FIUL features with downside protection and upside potential linked to market indices, our video focused on specific carriers that met certain criteria we highlighted for policy design flexibility, cash value optimization, and historical performance metrics. Each company has its strengths, and F&G's products might be worth considering depending on your specific needs and goals.

Financial advice is so nuanced and detailed, but Dave likes to use a broad brush. As a result, it usually fits no one.

@InsuranceandEstates I'm a proud Dave Ramsey hater. There are lots of actually good people to give advice and share knowledge, why bother with him, I say.

Understandable.

True. I give Dave credit for helping millions get out of debt and start building wealth. His baby steps are excellent for people drowning in consumer debt or just starting their financial journey. But financial planning isn't one size fits all. Especially when you move beyond debt payoff into wealth building and tax strategy. That's where specialized knowledge comes into play. Barry actually respects Dave's core principles about avoiding debt and building wealth. But just like you wouldn't go to a general practitioner for heart surgery, some financial strategies require deeper expertise. That's why Barry shows specific policy illustrations and real numbers rather than just broad statements. The key is understanding when you need a specialist versus general advice. Dave's foundation is good for the beginner. But as your wealth grows, strategies like properly structured whole life insurance can help optimize what you've built using his principles. Thank you for your insightful comment.

@InsuranceandEstates i personally do not like the idea of propping up terrible people with a small amount of common and good advice when they so a lot of harm otherwise

I hear you. The wealthy understand market realities and don't bet their retirement on these oversimplified rules of thumb. Dave’s advice leaves a lot to be desired.

@@InsuranceandEstates thanks for your efforts to inform people

Thank you 🙏

Thanks for your comment. I'm not surprised because most insurance agents aren't trained on high cash value whole life design. It's a specific strategy using paid up additions riders, term blend, and minimized base premium. The way Dave talks about whole life it appears that he is referring to smaller final expense type policies rather than a specially designed policy. As Barry pointed out, even traditional whole life policies offer better returns than the 1.2% Dave claims. Barry has spent 15+ years structuring these policies with top mutual companies. The illustrations shown in the video are real. These aren't new products. They are simply an optimized design most agents don't use because it reduces their commission. Feel free to reach out if you'd like to see more examples of properly structured policies. The difference between traditional whole life and high cash value design can be significant.

Great insight!

@maxshiraz3447 Not true. There is something special about tax treatment for policy loans. A credit card doesn't earn money, that's a poor example. In a properly structured whole life policy, the cash value grows guaranteed every year. There are gains, there's growth. Those gains come to you tax-free through policy loans. So yes, you can use the money, the gains, the growth, 100% tax-free.

You’re missing the point, you can borrow against the cash value like a HELOC and we’ve often made that comparison. The difference is the entire cash value amount keeps earning guaranteed growth plus dividends. So the policy loans provide money to use tax free for other investments with nominal interest and no other downside. So where is the BS? Point being, be careful what you define as “complete BS” when you clearly don’t understand something.

Thanks for watching. Notice how Barry lets the numbers do the talking here. He shows you real policies, actual returns, and verified growth numbers. When Dave makes claims about insurance companies keeping cash value or 1.2% returns, Barry pulls up policy illustrations to show what really happens. I get the skepticism of insurance salesmen. But Barry isn't asking you to trust him - he's showing you the math. He breaks down each of Dave's claims against actual policy mechanics and results. The illustrations speak for themselves. If showing real policy numbers and breaking down the math makes someone "sound like a salesman," what would you consider more credible? Watch the full breakdown again. This isn't about sales talk. It's about facts vs fiction.

What part in particular was salesy? Was it the part where he showed that Dave Ramsey doesn’t know what he’s talking about? If you utter an untruth enough times, what does that make you?

@bigm980 Thank you, I do sell life insurance. But, I sell properly structured whole life for high cash value growth. I clearly show in the video that Dave Ramsey is flat out wrong about whole life and I use actual whole life illustration numbers to prove it. Dave doesn't show numbers. He simply spouts his erroneous and inaccurate opinion. If a person wants an asset in their portfolio that grows guaranteed, that allows access to cash without a penalty, and to use the money 100% tax-free, they'd have high cash value whole life. It's the ultimate asset.

Impugning someone's style rather than addressing the merits of his/her arguments is typical when you've no valid counterpoint.

@djunabasc7423 Great point. And we would love to have people actually comment on the merits.

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Why? 1. Take Loans 2. Take out premiums 3. Go back to taking loans Thanks

@@sabb2942 Sorry, I am not grasping what you are saying here but I believe you're oversimplifying a powerful strategy. When structured properly, policy loans let your money keep growing at the guaranteed rate plus dividends while giving you tax-free access to capital. The premium payments help maximize this growth potential. Banks and corporations use this exact strategy with billions in cash value insurance - they understand the value of having money work in multiple ways simultaneously. It's not about "taking loans," it's about optimizing how your capital works for you.

@@InsuranceandEstates Does this help clarify? ____ The video says you teach: Why this sequence? Time Stamp 1. Take Loans before retirement @ 5:22 2. Take out basis during retirement @ 5:26 3. Go back to taking loans @ 5:31 Thanks

OK, I see. Yes, we teach that in retirement you withdraw up to your basis, and then take out policy loans for retirement income. We have found this is the most efficient way to utilize your policy for retirement income.

A few reasons come to mind 1️⃣ it depends on your goals. 2️⃣ it depends on who you ask 3️⃣ it depends on the amount you want to put in

This is just an example for real estate investors who are already safeguarding investment cash in a bank. You certainly don’t need to front end load with a lump sum or fund a policy so aggressively to see transformative results. Don’t let one example discourage you from looking deeper. Best!

Thanks for the tips!

Whole life policy owners can access their cash through direct withdrawals (no interest charged) OR by borrowing against their cash value. The powerful benefit of borrowing is that your entire cash value continues earning compound interest and dividends, even while you're using the money elsewhere. This unique feature lets your money work in two places at once - something a traditional savings account can't do.

Great observation. You're right - we can't completely eliminate opportunity cost, we can only work to minimize it. Let me explain how I think about this with whole life policies. When you take a policy loan at say 5% while your cash value earns 5%, you're correct that there's still an opportunity cost compared to not taking the loan at all. However, let's compare this to traditional financing options: Paying cash: You lose ALL growth on those funds Bank loan: You pay interest AND lose growth on your down payment Policy loan: Your money keeps growing while you use the capital elsewhere So while we can't eliminate opportunity cost entirely, policy loans give us a unique advantage with the ability to maintain growth on our full cash value while deploying capital elsewhere. This "double duty" aspect of the money is what makes it such a powerful tool for minimizing (though not eliminating) opportunity cost. All the best!

@ thank you for taking the time to respond I completely agree with everything very well said!

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You make a great point about the current system. That's exactly why we're so passionate about teaching people this alternative approach. Instead of relying on banks and corporations, you can create your own banking system where YOU control your money and benefit from its growth. It's about taking action now to build financial independence for yourself, your family, and future generations.

We would be happy to talk with you and help you discover which policy would be best. Stop by our website to set up a free strategy session www.insuranceandestates.com

Depends on how you design the policy. The more PUAs the less commissions for the agent. However, you have to compare illustrations and align the policy with your specific goals.

Thanks for commenting, we’re here when you’re ready and best to you in working through that process. It’s nice when people share because it may motivate someone else to plan early.

One of our favorites

Great points

Great comment - I appreciate your reference to all perspectives. My personal experience has been that my cash value policies have served as a buffer against instability in the same way, bringing much peace to my own life. People need to learn and apply what makes sense to them. My own commitment is not to knock Dave but to ask for an honest look at all options. Blessings to you.

@ you’re doing great stuff here. I found your channel this week. Looking forward to what you all share in the future.

An irrevocable trust is in a bit of a different class than your typical living trust or “revocable trust” because the goals are different. Where living trusts are generally for avoiding probate and doing some other distribution planning, an irrevocable trust is usually either done for asset protection or estate tax planning, both of those being more advanced matters. If either of those is your goal, before you fund that trust you’ll want to seek some tax advice from someone knowledgeable in estate tax law in your mom’s state of residency. Irrevocable trusts may also be used for Medicaid planning and may or may not work depending on you mom’s home state’s laws. For that situation you’ll want to seek out an elder law attorney with substantial Medicaid knowledge. Lots of different trust are sold to the masses and yet not all are vetted as legit. I hope this points you in the right direction. We’re working on developing some coaching offerings but still considering scope of services. These would be aimed at non state specific feedback as I’m offering now. I hope this points you in the right direction. If you still need feedback email me more details at steve@insuranceandestates.com. Thanks for checking in.

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Not on qualified money.

Assets in retirement accounts, such as IRAs, 401(k)s, and pensions, do not receive a step-up in basis.

Yes, it is out of control at this point.

Your mind

You are your number one asset